And what are you doing...posting something in my favor? That's illegal! XD Dammit you're supposed to be a deceptive liar to achieve whatever you can for your own means! Trying to keep things fair. That's all. XD XD Shigure It's much easier to fool someone with the truth, than it is to fool someone with a lie. XD Who said anyone was fooled? XD No one, of course. But is it the nature of the fool to know when he has been fooled? XD When the fool's name starts with a J and ends with an I, no. XD (Don't mind me. I'm just spewing meaningless one-liners for my own amusement. XD) Was that a rhetorical statement? @ Shigure XD Work...that's a change...? Was that question you just asked rhetorical? @ Juri XD Everything I ask is rhetorical...unless you favor a swollen nose and a bruised eye XD Nuri, sometimes I like arguing for the sake of arguing. Other times I like rambling for the sake of rambling. This is one of the latter. Oh, I quite favour swollen noses and bruised eyes, when they are not mine. XD Ah...>.>... XD * Nuri-chan is too tired to figure out what that meant, so... He's just trying to confuse you in his "wokish" way. XD In one word, 'nothing'. In two words, 'absolutely nothing'. In more than two words.... I don't know. Go ask one of those bullshit-style English teachers. XD Well, it worked. No bad pun intended. >.> Worked? >.> No, if he really wanted it to work, we'd be having a full-blown argument by now XD Don't even mention that...and it doesn't take much to confuse me. There's a time for aimless arguing, and there's a time for aimless rambling. There's also a time for both, but I suggest staying far away from me when I'm in that sort of mood. XD And may Shiva strike me down a thousand times should I EVER turn out to sound like Work O.O XD "Alright, children, sit down -" "Wait! What are we supposed to do? What's the square root of that? Do we have to conjugate it? Or know it's capital?" Too much arguing gives me a headache. That's why I grew smarter and learned to stay out of it XD But it was the arguing that helped you grow smart in the first place. XD Uh, no. Just no. No, no, no. My intelligence was there in the first place, it was just a matter of my decision; whether or not I wanted to use it at that moment. XD >.> @ Dracula ...o.O I've been pondering lately, about the nature of time. Is time a set of discrete frames, being played one after the other? Or is it more of a wave, flowing along? Or is it both, in much the same way that matter is both a particle and a wave? Work...please...my brain is tying itself in interesting knots. >.> Shigure, I have no clue. I don't know much about science to say what I would like to on that particular subject :P Neither do I. Time is a rather strange measure, seeing that we can measure it only in one direction... forward. It's really rather unique. Stop, dammit... Well, isn't it strange how time in space differs vastly from the time here on Earth? You _are_ trying to kill me, aren't you? Nuri, just ignore us o.o * Nuri-chan thumps his head down on the keyboard. >.> Time in space doesn't differ vastly from that on Earth. A few milliseconds' difference due to the effects of gravity, but little more. But there's still a variation, even if it's slight. There's a variation between me and the Mountain Dew bottle sitting atop my computer monitor. Immeasurably so, of course, but it's there. Mountain Dew kills sperm cells. XD Just thought you'd like to know. As I've said before, added bonus. XD XD Bad luck for Work. Unless you really want little Wok-spawn running about... XD I think they'd be cute ^^ Until of course, one of them tries to kill me. Which will probably happen on a daily basis XD Die Bitch! Die! Kill you? Nah. They'd be much more subtle than that! Oh, yeah...like the migraine poison you fed me. >.< Of course. Want some more? Sure. Pile it on, ya bastard. I'm not so much as interested as theories relating to time and space as I am to the personal journey of the human consciousness :P in^ Well, I think the nature of the universe is inherently tied to the nature of consciousness. After all, our thoughts are chronological... without time, how could we be conscious? =P * Nuri-chan blinks, then falls over. Did that help your migraine? XD @ Nuri Not necessarily. There are those who have said to experience things inside the human consciousness that transcends time. Really? Do explain. * Nuri-chan convulses. "Big...words..." Shamans, for instance. A lot of people think that they're full of shit. I personally, have no idea if they do or do not. But it's interesting stuff. or did^ Rather >.> Most of our thought processes revolve around causality... "If this, then that". I really don't see how this relationship could be described outside of time. An inward journey is not necessarily a thought process, Shigure. Every human experience does not coordinate through logic and reasoning. Most are, but not all. Hmmmm. I think I'm gonna...uh...get up to get some milk or something. Yeah...milk...exactly. >.> I really can't explain it in words. I guess what these Shamans left for us to think about was the fact that you can't really tell an experience, you just feel. They can claim, and say "Well I've experienced that and this which transcends time." Obviously it's full of shit if you can't back it up with evidence, but who knows? Thought processes need not be logical and reasonable, of course, but they're still thoughts. I'm having a difficult time imagining something that isn't a thought, but that's probably my severe left-brain bias. What exactly do they mean by "transcending time"? Thinking about something that isn't a thought...? >.> Or something along that line... Transcending time, it means to go out of time. The whole standard definition of time is constricted by the human thought processes, in other words, logic. This experience that they felt is obviously not logical. * Nuri-chan will just shut up now. Have you ever seen "Contact," Shigure? Yes, I have. A rather satisfying movie, that. Remember when Jodie Foster was put on trial for creating falsities? They asked her for evidence, she couldn't come up with any. Hm, it's been a while since I've seen it. This was after her voyage? But, she had an amazing experience, one that transcended time and space. She FELT something that wasn't describable. You just had to experience it to know what she was talking about. Hai, after her voyage. An amazing experience, yes. "Transcending time and space"? I don't know about that. (Of course, how do you depict something like that in a movie? You can't, of course.) I guess you'll just have to let go of your logic and reasoning once in awhile to know what I'm trying to talk about. In logical terms, it's impossible. Feeling something indescribable isn't necessarily anything "transcendent". It's just a failing in language. For me, when I watched the movie, it was as if she had escaped time itself. You know, I guess I can understand why Shamans are a bunch of hermits >.> No one can really understand what they're trying to say, and once they try to explain, it really makes no sense. Escaping time? I certainly didn't get that feeling. What is outside of time? Absolutely nothing. It is all completely and utterly static; changeless. We change. Therefore, we can not be outside of time. Nor can we move outside of time, because that means that "outside of time" is changing... an impossibility. Shigure, it's a movie. XP Anything is possible in movies. Putting it into realistic terms, I really can't say anything there without sounding strange, or off. In that case, what you're calling "outside of time" isn't. XD I think it is. Ok, I'm back...did you talk about anything meaningful, or should I just read more PvP...? I don't see how one can be conscious and yet never change. For me, "transcendent" means that which is beyond all concepts. Isn't "transcendent" a concept in and of itself? That's just it, you don't_see. :P PvP it is then... lol @ Nuri You believe that all of our experiences are bound between time and space. Right? That they take place within space, and they take place in the course of time. Bound in time, yes. Bound in space..... no. All of space might just be our imagination. And why do you believe that? It seems to me that the ability to change is a necessary component of consciousness. Consciousness is not a static thing. Time is required for change to exist. How do you know that time isn't a figment of your imagination, either? Hmmm...*switches to something simple, like Eva. >.<* Nuri, if you don't like talking about consciousness...I really wouldn't recommend striking up a conversation with Maynard XD He can go on...and onnnnn If time is a figment of my imagination, and does not really exist, that means that my (static, outside-of-time) consciousness must always imagine time, because it can not change. Iruj, I wouldn't be surprised. It's not that I don't like it, it's just that (1) my brain is slush right now, and (2) I still don't understand most of what you're saying. It sounds interesting, though. I thought you just said that consciousness wasn't a static thing. XD The only way I could be the one imagining time is if I had two separate consciousnesses, a static conscious that is outside of time, and a dynamic conscious that does the real thinking. Ah. Yes, Juri, but assuming that you're right, and it is a figment of my imagination, I'll go with the assumption of a static conscious for now. I still have much to learn...there's so much to be covered, yet there are so little resources accurate enough to incite correct conclusions. Well, this really isn't a game of knowledge, or science. It's a game of philosophy, of the mind. Science will never give us the answer for this, I think. I think knowledge plays an important role in this game you call "philosophy." Perhaps. It is good to know the words that describe the ideas that are bantered about. This is why I try to read what I can...even if it sounds wrong. I want to be able to place myself in all these different positions, and ask what it is that these people are trying to teach, and why they believe it is so. Of course. Listening to other people's ideas and judging them can be a very useful tool. I hope you find my viewpoint on things helpful. ^_^ I'm not so much for judging, but I like questioning ^^ XD Oh, it's been helpful alright XD You know, when I mentioned the "two separate consciousnesses" thing earlier? I just realised something. That static conscious.... I would probably call it "God". You sound like Joseph Campbell >.>; Just some food for thought. ^_^ You're scaring me XD XD I'm actually agreeing with you >.> This is the best philosophical conversation I have had in a good long while. ^_^ "The word 'God' properly refers to what transcends all thinking." <.<... @ looking back into this window just as Wokie says that Is it? :P Yeah, I think so. Have you had any better philosophical conversations lately? =P Only twice. And that was with Maynard XD *rapes Creiyst* Yay. I guess I'm not doing too badly, then. XD * Nuri-chan dies. It's so weird...he and I get along really well on a conversational level. It's enthralling. XD It's like talking to you, Shigure...but with less disagreeing. >.> Lina How well do you know Maynard, exactly, Juri? o.O In any case, while some people talk about "outside of time" as a beautiful, transcendent, mystic thing... I think it's boring. It's a static realm where nothing happens, and in fact nothing can happen. Things only get interesting once the clock starts ticking. XD On a casual level. But we've managed to make some great conversations out of that time @ Lina I would hope 'less disagreeing'. Surely it's impossible to have more disagreeing. XD It's like going to a club, meeting a random person and clicking. That's it. XD No, what I meant was, we tend to agree on a lot of things. A LOT >.> When_was the last time you had a philosophical conversation? @ Shigure :P It's good to discuss things with someone that has similar beliefs. It's also good to discuss things with someone who doesn't agree, too. ^_^ Definitely, Mat XD Hmmm. Probably two or three years ago. Sitting around at four in the morning with a bunch of friends on a caffeine rush, and talking philosophy. Good stuff. ^_^ Damn, and I thought I was on a role with our conversation about MAEWKOR or whatever that was. MAEWKOR? Something about monolingual Americans who have lots of useless knowledge about other languages. XD What >.> It's also an anagram for REAM WOK. I feel scared. XD lol XD XD XDX XD^ Hm...that sounds entertaining...XD Eep! XD * Juri-chan fwaps Lina for that unforgivable Maynard stereotype XD *all late-like* * Linaaaaaa dies. <.< I got stronger? Wai! When I fwap Shigure, he just falls over XD That just means I'm not as weak as Lina. O_ * Linaaaaaa kills Workie from beyond the grave. * Shigure dies. Ok...now are you done talking about conscience and time and existance ("We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion..."...Sorry, had to get that one in) and all that? >.> Be careful, Nuri, it can flare back up at any time. XD Yeah, especially with that lyric there >.> Eep! >.>...There's not enough PvP for me to read... * Juri-chan remembers getting into an argument with Shigure about that one XD We get into arguments about nearly everything, Juri. XD Don't even start. Am I such an entertaining debate partner? XP Yes. That, and you're stubborn. XD What's wrong with being stubborn? :P Absolutely nothing. Stubbornness is a great virtue (at least, I hope it is, since it's one of the few virtues I have...) XD lol XD Work? Virtuous? In any way, shape, or form? Ow...my stomach muscles hurt. Stop making me laugh. Quiet, you. Who do you think I am, Lina? XD Owwwww...dammit, I said stop, and I meant it! *rolls on the floor in pain* brb Hah. You thought I would be satisfied with just giving you a migraine? Oh, no. XD The torture... * Nuri-chan is completely convinced that Work is a Prince of Satan. Shhh. Don't tell anyone. XD Do not worry, fellow Prince, for I shall tell no one that you are a PRINCE OF SATAN .